delights in San Jose.
Arbol: We never have enough tacos.
Sbrocco: A hip Vietnamese spot in San Mateo.
Chaparro: That broth exploded in my mouth.
Sbrocco:And a cozy Italian cafe in San Francisco.
Wong: Pepper flakes.
Done.
Sbrocco: Just ahead on "Check, Please!
Bay Area."
Wong: It was like large, larger, and just ridiculous.
[ Laughter ] Sbrocco: Hi.
I'm Leslie Sbrocco.
Welcome to "Check, Please!
Bay Area", the show where Bay Area residents review and talk about their favorite restaurants.
Now we have three guests, and each one recommends one of their favorite spots, and the other two go check them out to see what they think.
Joining me at the Check, Please!
table today are dentist Derek Wong, Community College administrator Gabe Chaparro, and case manager Eugenia Arbol.
Welcome, everyone.
Are you ready?
Wong: Let's do this.
Arbol: Let's do it.
Sbrocco: As a college administrator, Gabe loves to connect with students by sharing his top picks for budget bites in the Bay Area.
His favorite taqueria is always a hit with undergrads, serving fresh fish tacos and other Mexican specialties.
In San Jose, it's Dia de Pesca.
MexSíFood.
♪♪ Chaparro: Dia de Pesca is a Mexican seafood taqueria.
Edwards: Dia de Pesca in English, the slang is "gone fishing."
Zarazua: It's like go fishing day.
I want the customer relaxing like vacation time.
And enjoy margaritas and fresh seafood tacos.
We have like 10 seafood choices for you.
Tacos, quesadillas, or burritos.
This style to prep the fish tacos is like Baja, California.
Fresh cabbage, pico de gallo on top, and a chipotle sauce.
I use all fresh ingredients to make the salsas.
Grilled tomatoes, grilled chilies.
A lot of dinner place choices, too.
Not only tacos.
Edwards: Enchiladas.
Zarazua: Enchiladas.
Edwards: Fajitas.
Zarazua: So we have a lot of things to try.
And a michelada.
The shrimp is marinated with a special house sauce, slowly grilled, the shrimp, to have a perfect taste.
Edwards: We have a little straw so you can eat the prawns one by one.
Everyone does it different.
Zarazua: I like to take a shrimp, take a sip.
-Edwards: Shrimp and a sip.
-Zarazua: Yes.
Edwards: We have the nopales, the cacti out front.
Woman: Get those juices out.
Edwards: We use the fruit for our drinks.
-Zarazua: Agua fresca.
-Edwards: Agua fresca.
The atmosphere here, I would say, is chill.
People come, and they want to relax.
It's like a little oasis.
We have this beautiful patio.
We say dog friendly as long as the dogs are friendly.
[ Laughter ] Zarazua: When I see the customer enjoy the food and I see happy face, that makes me happy because we make with love.
All: Salud!
Sbrocco: Now, Gabe, there are a lot of taquerias in the South Bay and San Jose area.
What drew you to this one?
Chaparro: Growing up, I used to go up and down Bascom to visit a friend's church there, and I would see this place.
But because it was just there in this little tiny parking lot, I would drive by it and just never even think to stop.
As we got older, one of my really good friends who was incredibly picky about food said, "You need to go there."
And I went there, ordered just two tacos the first time, and I was sold.
When I first started with was a shrimp taco.
The grilled shrimp was great.
And then I'll go for the halibut, also.
Sbrocco: And it's the freshness, really.
Chaparro: Oh, yeah, the freshness is there, definitely.
Sbrocco: And, Derek, what was your experience?
Wong: Yeah, when we went, it was a lovely outdoor dining alfresco.
I tried the tacos.
It was like a three sampler platter with halibut, tilapia, and sea bass.
It had red sauce like a pico de gallo salsa, a green chili sauce.
And the interesting thing was that it had a green chili in it, which I've never had in a fish taco before.
That added a little bit of heat, which was nice.
I think maybe a little less sauce for me, but fresh.
Very, very nice.
And I loved it.
Sbrocco: All right, Eugenia?
Arbol: Yeah, I tried also the salmon.
I tried the shrimp, and I tried halibut.
I love the shrimp.
Shrimp was my favorite.
Wong: I should have had the shrimp.
Arbol: It was perfectly cooked, and the tacos were pretty full filled.
You know, like, it comes with double tortilla, you know?
So, like, one taco is good enough.
Chaparro: Y'all are talking about the shrimp.
And I don't know if you had the shrimp cocktail at all.
-Wong: Yes.
-Chaparro: Or the michelada.
Either one of the two or both.
-Wong: Yeah.
-Chaparro: Oh, if you get the super michelada, it's got eight shrimp on the top that are grilled.
Arbol: I don't believe that I tried michelada.
Chaparro: So it's a beer, right?
Half of it's a beer of your choice.
And then they have their own michelada mix.
So sometimes, like it's clamato and some other ingredients.
Sbrocco: Like a Bloody Mary with beer.
Chaparro: Yeah.
Arbol: Okay.
I can understand that.
Chaparro: Yeah, so with tajín on the top and then with the shrimp, I mean, it's a great way to start, right?
And then if you don't drink beer or whatever, you can go with the shrimp cocktail, which is this big goblet full of garlic broths.
And then on the top is the tomato juice and cilantro, onions, and, of course, just a bunch of shrimp.
Like, you like you should share with someone.
But I never share with anyone.
So I'm not much of a sharer when it comes to shrimp.
Wong: I wish I'd had that michelada.
I saw that on the menu.
Because the drink menu is huge.
There are so many margaritas, different drinks like that.
But I did have the shrimp cocktail.
And their goblets, they show you which size you get.
To me, it was like large, larger, and just ridiculous.
-[ Laughter ] -You didn't have a choice.
It was just like big or nothing, which is great.
So I had a party of five, and we ordered the medium size, and we almost didn't finish it, and it was just great.
I had fresh shrimp, fresh octopus, and all the fresh aromatics -- onion, cilantro, all that good stuff.
Sbrocco: Any other things that people should order?
Wong: I had the pozole.
Sbrocco: Oh, okay.
Arbol: The green or the red one?
Wong: Oh, they only had one.
It was the red one.
So it said rice, beans, or pozole.
I said, "Pozole for sure."
And that was -- It stole the show from me.
Chaparro: Wow.
Wong: I loved it, loved it, loved it.
My entire group said, "Oh, this is it."
Sbrocco: And you've not had that before?
Chaparro: I've not had that before.
Arbol: Amazing because, like going to try.
Chaparro: Yeah.
Sbrocco: Derek's schooling you a little bit.
Chaparro: Yeah, that's alright.
Sbrocco: What about dessert?
Did anybody -- or do you ever have dessert?
Chaparro: I mean, the closest thing I've had to a dessert -was just a -- -Sbrocco: Michelada.
[ Laughter ] Arbol: You know, the atmosphere was super nice.
It was like just one block from the beach on Sayulita or somewhere in Mexico.
You know, we saw all those, you know, mosaic -- I don't know how you say in English.
Wong: All those pastel mosaic.
Arbol: My grandma used to have those, you know, on the patio.
Sbrocco: So you just wanted to relax in the sun.
Arbol: It's super nice.
It's super nice.
Super nice place.
Yeah.
Sbrocco: And, you know, talking about affordability because you like to recommend this to your students, talk about that.
Chaparro: I tell them because it's one or two tacos and they're okay, but when I go, I go with a friend and we start in the afternoon, and we start with a michelada.
We start with two or three or four tacos, and then we go back to a michelada, and then maybe a glass of wine.
And then maybe -- before you know it, they're like, "So we're closing."
[ Laughter ] -And we're like -- -Sbrocco: Affordability is out.
Chaparro: Out the window.
Out the window.
But yeah, if you're just passing through and, you know, two great tacos, you're done.
Arbol: We never have enough tacos.
Chaparro: Right.
Arbol: I could go back again for tacos and michelada and the pozole.
Wong: The pozole.
Sbrocco: You need to go with him and plan for a whole afternoon.
Wong: You go, you see him there.
He's probably there.
He's still there.
Sbrocco: Well, if you would like to go to Dia de Pesca, it's located on Bascom Avenue in San Jose, and the average tab per person without drinks is around $20.
Derek is a huge fan of Vietnamese pho.
The richer the broth and the bigger the bowl, the better.
He says he's found the undisputed king of all phos at this lively local spot in downtown San Mateo.
It's Gao Viet Kitchen.
♪♪ [ Laughter ] Nguyen: Gao Viet Kitchen is a place where we serve authentic food but look wild.
[ Laughs ] Just like me.
[ Laughs ] Doing okay over here?
So everybody call me the pho guy.
So when you see me.
"Hey, the pho guy."
Look at that.
Sometime I eat twice a day.
I cannot live without pho.
This is clay pot.
It's a very traditional dish.
I have another restaurant.
They're called Ben Tre.
And we do traditional Vietnamese food.
And we never change the menu.
So when I go travel, I like to eat.
Beef rib.
So all these years, I have the vision of all these dishes that I want to make.
So when I create this restaurant, I want to make sure when I create a menu, I create it for me.
I do appetizer in a bigger scale for people to share.
It's more fun that way.
I learned how to use social media, and I figured out, you know what, I can make a beautiful bowl of pho and nobody's going to be watching that.
So one way for me to do is create something that is more in-your-face.
When people see it, either they like it or not, they're going to talk about it.
Look at that.
Look at that.
Oh, beautiful.
For my pho broth, we do cook for 23, 24 hours.
A lot of bone and a lot of marrow.
It's soft.
Most pho plates, they use the regular pho noodle.
So what I do is I use the fresh made noodle.
You have to use it the same day.
There's no shortcut to it.
I put the marrow in here.
You know, there's nothing I do that's more satisfying... Man: You can tell.
Nguyen: ...is making the customer happy.
If when a customer leaves the restaurant, they say, "Wow, this is good."
Woman: Oh, my God.
Man: Good.
Sbrocco: All right, Derek, what is the main draw of this place for you?
Because to be called the king of all pho, there might be some arguments going on.
Wong: Yeah.
Pho is easily one of my favorite foods.
I call it life broth, and I think pho, like, everyone has their favorite pizza spot or Mexican joint or burrito spot, everyone has their favorite pho spot.
But when I found this place open up close to where I work, it was pho elevated, and in addition to all their other Vietnamese cuisines.
So when I tried it, I said, "Mind blown, everyone needs to come here."
Sbrocco: And is there a particular pho dish that you?
Wong: Yeah, so the chubby pho is probably the one that I like the most.
It's their elevated everyday pho where they just throw in bits of 24 hour bone marrow, which makes the broth so rich.
And my mouth waters every time I think about it.
Sbrocco: Beef broth.
Wong: And they have filet mignon in there, caramelized onions, and the portion is huge.
Chaparro: I was going to get the chubby pho.
But when I walked in, I wasn't in the mood for pho.
But I did know that, you know, the most important thing about the pho is the broth, right?
-Wong: Yeah.
-Chaparro: And so I'm like, "I've got to get a taste of this somehow.
And they've got something called the pho shot.
-Wong: You did that?
-Chaparro: Oh!
Can I preach about this thing?
-Because -- -Sbrocco: It is creative.
-Wong: Did you did you see that?
-Arbol: What is a pho shot?
Chaparro: It's a $12 bowl of broth, right?
But if you have it with a shot of tequila before you drink the pho.
-Arbol: Okay.
-Sbrocco: Wow.
Chaparro: Which opens all of your taste buds, right?
Sbrocco: Or dulls them One or the other.
Chaparro: All I know is that broth exploded in my mouth.
I was like, "Whoa, this is so good!"
Wong: And then you want the whole bowl after.
Chaparro: I mean, yeah, I did finish the bowl of the broth.
Nguyen: All right.
We done.
Let's go, let's go, Let's go.
Wong: So the phozilla is the monster of phos.
It's a three bowl pho all in one, with two rib bones, a one and a half pound lobster tail in there de-shelled.
Sbrocco: The phozilla.
Wong: You better be ready for it.
Watch your wallet.
Arbol: How many people to eat that.
Sbrocco: Right?
Wong: You definitely need three.
And it's served just piping hot with heaps of bone marrow.
You can see the bone marrow, just little itty bits there.
You've got the two huge beef ribs which you can pull out.
Like, the bone comes out like a sword.
It goes like like that.
And when you taste it, it just melts in your mouth.
Sbrocco: And there is a strategy for attacking that, I can imagine.
Wong: Yeah, so, I mean -- Chaparro: You take your new friend.
[ Laughter ] Wong: It's -- do I eat the noodles first?
Do I get a little bit of broth first?
Do I get some of the filet mignon?
Do I get some of the caramelized onion?
I don't know where to start.
And when you're looking at it, you go, "Okay, well, I'm just going to go in.
Spoons in, and off you go.
So it's amazing.
Sbrocco: You two are going to get it next.
[ Laughter ] All right.
What was your experience?
Arbol: No, I love it.
It's like the place is huge.
It's so lively, so colorful, full of colors and full of people, too.
Wong: Oh, yeah.
There's a wait.
There's a wait.
Arbol: It was so crowded.
Chaparro: So I think an important tip is that you can get on the waiting list through Yelp instead of showing up and getting on it.
Arbol: So I like pho.
I wouldn't say it's the king of pho because like, there's so many good phos around the city.
You got a lot of, you know, competition.
But the preparation, like the presentation is like a piece of art because I remember that I ordered the gao rolls.
So all meat.
Sbrocco: Well, you're from Argentina.
Arbol: Yeah.
So they're very delicious.
Everything was very good, well cooked.
Wong: It's different than the traditional spring roll of shrimp and maybe some pork.
But this is ribeye, but in a pho noodle rice paper.
It's not your traditional rice paper either.
So it has a different chewy texture to it.
Arbol: That's true, yeah.
Wong: Which is interesting, right?
So they do different plays on traditional Vietnamese dishes.
Arbol: There's so many different ways just to make a fish sauce, but their fish sauce is pretty good.
Sbrocco: Okay.
Arbol: It's pretty good.
Chaparro: We started with the shrimp rolls.
Just something, you know, basic and that's at every restaurant.
It was great.
The mint was on the side.
You can just peel it off and put it on your roll.
So it was great.
And then we had the garlic noodles 3-way, which sounds like a dirty joke, but it's actually a dish.
Yeah, it had the imperial rolls, it had the ribeye, and it had grilled shrimp on top of some garlic noodles.
And it was really good.
I mean, we said it earlier, I love shrimp.
And the grilled shrimp were perfect, Like just a little bit of char and mixed with that garlic flavor, it was great.
Sbrocco: Any other dishes that you had?
Wong: Yeah, so the banh hoi is an appetizer dish where you can choose up to four different little mini finger foods, if you will.
So we had the sugar cane shrimp, we had the imperial rolls, crispy pork belly, which was to die for, and grilled sausage.
And it comes all on a plate with rice noodles.
And you can wrap it up in little lettuce wraps, and you can dip it in a fish sauce, and everyone gets a little bit of -- Arbol: Creative.
Wong: Yeah, a little bit of everything.
A little bit of everything.
So my favorite of all of that was the crispy pork belly.
Just crispy, unctuous fat, just dripping.
Sbrocco: All right, Now I'm really hungry.
-Arbol: Me too.
-Sbrocco: Now I'm really hungry.
And did you have anything to drink?
Wong: I think I had the holy gao, which was a light vodka based drink with oregano and jalapeno peppers.
So more peppers in my drinks.
Arbol: All the little things that they put on the -- Wong: Yeah.
Chaparro: After the tequila shot, I was like, "I don't think I need more alcohol."
So we went to this mocktail that was called the lychee coconut freeze.
It was really good.
It was almost like a snow cone, but shaved even more than that almost.
And the fruit flavor just comes out so strong and so sweet.
Sbrocco: And what did you feel in terms of price?
Chaparro: Yeah, I thought it was pricey, but I have this perspective about food and price.
I think a lot of times we expect for people of color their food to cost less.
Like if you think about a taco, if you're in L.A. and you get a street taco, it's like $1.50, and that's kind of your expectation of tacos wherever you go, that it'll be cheap, right?
But if you go to a place, and it's got special ingredients like the restaurant we're talking about right now, that pho place is not just any old pho place, right?
And not that any old pho place is "any old pho place."
Those are cooking strategies that have been passed down from generation to generation of family history that's getting poured for someone to just buy and not even think about where it came from.
That's worth something.
Sbrocco: That is so beautifully said, so beautifully.
I'm going to raise a glass to that.
Wong: Cheers to that.
Sbrocco: That was awesome.
Sbrocco: If you would like to try Gao Viet Kitchen, it's located on South San Mateo Drive in San Mateo, and the average tab per person without drinks is around $25.
Woman: It's our first time here, and we really love it.
Sbrocco: Eugenia is lucky to live just a couple of blocks from her favorite place for southern Italian fare.
Tucked inside a corner Victorian at the crossroads of Noe Valley and Mission in San Francisco, it's Fiore Caffè.
♪♪ Arola: Caffè Fiore is a family owned restaurant.
The idea is to just give a good food, good service, be friendly.
And that's the key.
Fiore means flowers, and we need to see something beautiful.
Like I will tell you, "You are as beautiful as a flower."
So I decided to call it Fiore.
Okay.
Permesso, Signore.
I come from Naples, Italy, which is a city that's big on street food.
Everywhere you look, you can find something good to eat.
Most of the menu is southern Italian dishes that I grew up with.
Everything is made in the house.
Handmade pastas, such as ravioli, tortellini, fettuccine.
Some of the typical dishes is the Neapolitan ragu.
It's a five hour beef and pork stew in tomato sauce.
Usually on Sunday morning, mothers start to cook very early in the morning.
They go to church, they come back.
The ragu is still on the fire.
My favorite dish is linguine vongole, which is a typical Neapolitan dish.
It takes me back to my hometown.
[ Music playing ] We offer a wide variety of Italian wine as well as California wines.
Some is more wines that I used to drink in Italy and I'm attached to it.
Woman: [ Speaking Italian ] Arola: I really like when our customers become friends.
[ Laughter ] And this is the case with many, many customers here.
I want them to feel satisfied, not hungry at all.
And I want them to crave to come back here.
All right, Eugenia, this is really an institution.
This place has been around a while.
Arbol: Yeah, yeah.
But like we've been through a pandemic, so I was praying.
I said, "Okay, please don't close that place."
It's a very unpretentious place.
Wong: Yeah, it was like your own little neighborhood cafe.
It just felt like very friendly, very low and slow, but in a good way, right?
Arbol: I love it.
I love to just come back after work and just say, "Okay, let's go to have a wine."
Sbrocco: What do you get when go?
Arbol: Of course, like, I try every single plate that they have.
Weekdays is always the same.
-Sbrocco: Okay.
-Arbol: It's my involtini di radicchio al prosciutto, which is so good.
So this is more than the salad.
It's a delicious scene of pure just wrapped in prosciutto that is sweet and sour.
And the focaccia, you just dip on the oil, and that is perfect.
Chaparro: So I had that, too.
When I first cut in, all I get is a piece of the radicchio, and I've never had it.
And all of a sudden, I'm just filled with all this bitter flavor, and I'm like, "What am I eating?
And then I just took a fork full with like three different ingredients on it.
And the whole flavor was something completely different.
-Arbol: That's the thing.
-Wong: You're right.
It's just this pile of different ingredients.
The bitter crunch of the radicchio.
You've got the crispiness of the prosciutto.
You've got the soft, warm pear with I think there's maybe a little bit of honey in there.
You've got the arugula, the crisp on that, and then the goat cheese on top.
And I felt like it was the perfect marriage of all those things for me together in one perfect bite.
So I'm so thankful that you recommended it.
Arbol: I'm so happy.
Wong: It was delicious.
Chaparro: So to me, there's kind of like a spectrum of food.
There are like very, very flavored food, and food where the flavor is there, but it's not there to overwhelm your day.
So I had the caprese.
Sbrocco: Okay.
Arbol: How you like the caprese?
Chaparro: Again, they like arugula there.
Like, they really do.
Right?
And it's just cheese and tomato in a beautiful circle, and then arugula on the top mixed with basil and three olives.
Yeah, they had just a very mild flavor, right?
And so that was my experience for almost all the dishes.
The flavor was something you almost kind of have to look for, but when you find it, you're happy you took the time to get there.
Arbol: You are good.
[ Laughter ] Sbrocco: I know.
I just want to listen to you, Gabe.
Wong: Like a poetry about food.
Sbrocco: Absolutely, and, Derek, what other dishes did you have?
Wong: We started with the clams vongole with pepper flakes.
And that was, like you were saying earlier, just sometimes you just need simple ingredients and just do it well, right?
So it's clams, it's white wine, pepper flakes.
Done.
That's it.
Simple as that.
Arbol: Very purist.
Wong: Yeah.
And it was delicious.
And it was done well.
Then they had a special that day, which was beef lasagna.
And that came in this little ramekin, and this beef ragu that was in it was so rich and moist.
And it's not big, right?
It's not your grandma's lasagna, where you imagine stacks and stacks and stacks.
But yeah, I wish it had come that big because when I tasted it, I said, "Wow, this is so flavorful."
Sbrocco: What is your favorite pasta?
Arbol: The pappardelle al salmone is so amazing.
Pasta is simple.
Pasta is not a complicated dish.
You know, like it needs to be cooked al dente.
Sbrocco: It needs to be fresh.
It needs to be cooked.
Arbol: It needs to have the right sauce that is not just -- -Sbrocco: Swimming in it.
-Arbol: Swimming in it.
Exactly.
And of course, always with a good glass of wine.
Sbrocco: Yeah.
And what about the risotto?
Chaparro: So I had the frutti di mare risotto.
It had some clams, it had some mussels, and it had the flat out big squid that's cut into pieces.
So it was one of those things where the flavor was there, but it wasn't overwhelming.
Arbol: Have you tried dessert?
Wong: I made room for dessert.
I don't generally make room for dessert, but I had dessert.
Yeah, the cannoli was good.
It had orange zest and pistachio flavoring in it.
I wished the cream inside was a little bit creamier, you know, like fresh pumped out cream.
But the shell was crispy and sweet, and that was good.
Chaparro: Yeah, the flavors in the cannoli were really strong for me.
But I had it with a cup of Earl Gray.
I don't know if it was just the bergamot and the zest mixing with the zest of the dessert like complemented each other or not.
But I know the tea also like flattened out the richness of it.
And so it's just a perfect mix.
Yeah, it just worked.
Arbol: My favorite is the panna cotta.
Panna cotta is like, it's between a flan -and a -- -Sbrocco: And a cheesecake Arbol: And a cheesecake.
Yeah.
Sbrocco: Light ricotta base.
Arbol: It has that fluffy, you know, and they put like, a sauce on the top, but the panna cotta, what is great about dessert, that is super light.
Sbrocco: And what did you think in terms of price?
Chaparro: I spent a lot of money there.
I did.
Arbol: Did you drink?
Chaparro: And I didn't drink because the drink price list goes from you're going to have four glasses with dinner to you're going to have one glass unless you're rich.
Like, there's a gap.
Sbrocco: And what did you think?
Wong: Oh, I thought it was very fair, you know, for all the pasta dishes, the wines around San Francisco, the prices were very fair.
I found good value in it.
Arbol: I believe that the prices are fair.
Just to go, you know, let's say a couple of times a week, it's affordable, and the place is also so beautiful.
I don't know if you noticed the art and the homemade tables.
I have that community as part of my community.
Wong: Yeah.
Sbrocco: If you would like to try Fiore Caffè, it's located on 24th Street in San Francisco, and the average dinner tab per person without drinks is around $40.
Looking for more Bay Area bites you've just got to try?
Woman: Salud!
Sbrocco: Check out "Cecilia Tries It", online at kqed.org/checkplease.
I have to thank my absolutely wonderful guests on this week's show, Derek Wong, who slayed the phozilla at Gao Viet Kitchen in San Mateo.
Gabe Chaparro, who spends his Saturdays sipping the micheladas at Dia de Pesca in San Jose.
And Eugenia Arbol, who devours the housemade focaccia at San Francisco's Fiore Caffè.
Join us next time when three more guests will recommend their favorite spots right here on "Check, Please!
Bay Area."
I'm Leslie Sbrocco, and I'll see you then.
Cheers.
Whoo-hoo!
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Salud.
Arbol: Ah, salute.
Sbrocco: Okay.
Woman: Just one more little turn toward.
Arbol: I'm too comfortable.
[ Laughter ] Sbrocco: I love this look.
No, I don't want to move this look.
-Chaparro: Imperial -- -Sbrocco: Hang on one second, because that sounds like a ménage a trois.
-Chaparro: Okay.
-[ Laughter ] Chaparro: Yeah, it was me, the imperial roll.
Sbrocco: There are way too many jokes in my head.
Okay, I got to stop my mind right now.
Chaparro: You would like to say three way.
Wong: Oh, boy.
Sbrocco: You guys are awesome.
Yeah, it really is.
It's like sitting and chatting, you know?
[ Laughter ]
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